Today I am working towards my Ph.D. with the #1 professor in my field. Don’t lose hope. If you really want to do something, you will find a way ….
From as far back as I can remember I have always enjoyed teaching and that was my
long term goal. After finishing my BTech from the Bengal Engineering and Science University (formerly known as Bengal Engineering College), Shibpur, I joined IIT Kanpur for MTech in 2007 with a simple plan: I wanted to do PhD from a reputed university so that I can then get to teach in some engineering college. But 6 months down the line, my plan went haywire.. my CPI at the end of semester 1 was 7.5; in MTech a CPI of 8.0 is considered average and my rank at one point was 14th or 16th out of 20. During a casual discussion with my supervisor I was told that with a CPI less than 8.0 there was “zero possibility” of getting into a top 100 PhD program.
No margin for error
Well, I think my relatively low CPI was mostly due to two things. First, I got exposed to a lot of activities all at once. At one particular time I was the student placement co-ordinator, student guide in the counselling service and was also taking French and guitar classes. I think this happens to quite a lot of students who come from colleges where there are not too many “non-academic” activities.
Secondly, the grading system at IITK is particularly unfair for post-graduate students. We were exposed to a completely new system of exams and we take only 8 courses during the entire program. With even-point grading system (A=10, B=8, C=6, D=4, F=2), a small slip-up gets your CPI down by 0.25. I remember, one of the mid-semester exams where we were allowed to carry with us one sheet of paper filled with any information we deemed fit. I had no idea about what to include on the sheet of paper; so I decided to add as many things as possible keeping font size as small as I could read. I managed to stuff the entire syllabus in the sheet! I went to the exam hall very confident but found that my sheet couldn’t help me solve even one question; and I got a zero in an exam for the first time in my life! Luckily it was just a mid-semester exam. I think it took me time to understand the nuances of open book, take home exams and the likes. By then it was too late and since we only had 2 semesters worth of course work, one couldn’t really bounce back from such setbacks. The second semester was not too great either and by the end of it I was convinced that there was absolutely no way I could get admitted to a decent PhD program.
A point worth noting is that more than half of the time spent during the MTech program is on thesis work (about 12-14 months out of 22). Quality of the thesis is also more important to professors looking for PhD students. However there are no grades awarded for thesis; thus I think CPI is not as important in the context of MTech.
Is there really NO way I could do what I wanted to?
Maybe people around me were right. Maybe there was no way I could do what I wanted to do, i.e., have a career in academics. My supervisors and seniors managed to convince me that I would probably not get a PhD in a decent place with only masters degree from IIT and a CPI of 7.33; so I stopped preparing for the GRE and decided to enjoy my thesis as much as I could. Also 2009 was a year of recession so my duties as the placement co-ordinator kept me really busy and pre-occupied. Initially I was not too worried about landing a job, but when companies one after the other started refusing to come for placements, I started suffering from sleepless nights. This was when I started questioning my earlier decision to not accept a job offer at SAIL (Steel Authority of India Limited) after BTech and instead join IITK for MTech. Suddenly help came from an unexpected corner. During a candid discussion with my thesis supervisor I told him how much I was enjoying the thesis work, but how I was also regretting my decision to refuse a placement offer with SAIL and do MTech instead. It was then that he assured me that he would help me get a job in case on-campus placement efforts don’t work out, provided I didn’t let the intensity of my thesis work go down.
I never really felt any peer pressure. Perhaps this was due to the fact that my friends had similar grades as mine. All of us by now had decided that CPI was important only if we wanted to pursue a PhD somewhere. We all agreed to have as much fun as possible during the thesis and forget the PhD goal. Joint GRE preparation session turned into simple adda at the canteen. My parents never put any pressure on me with regards to grades; in fact the last time they enquired about my marks and grades was way back in 2002 when I was in class 12th. I think it was mainly due to the fact that my parents had enough confidence in me. So there was no real problem there.
Once on-campus placements started, in my first interview, the interviewer asked me something about Finite Element accuracy, I had no clue as to what he was asking. I just mumbled “physical intuition”, to which one of the interviewer remarked “That is a top answer” and my interview was over; just one question, no discussion about having the lowest grades among those selected for the interview. Later I was told that I had topped the written test for the job. I was offered the job but as the luck would have it, the company suffered several reverses and the project I was selected for got postponed by a few months. I thought a 4-6 month holiday at home was not really an option and so I started teaching in a private engineering college close to my home. It was a wonderful experience for me, I really enjoyed giving the lectures. I loved the fact that I managed to get a lot of attention from my students, I liked talking about engineering and liked being surrounded by people interested in hearing me talk. This experience also further confirmed that without any research experience, I could never be a good teacher. All I felt I was doing was translating stuff from the text book and narrating it to the class. To put it simply, I was just indulging in “high school teaching.” I realized that I didn’t really have enough knowledge to be a good teacher in a college/university. PhD was an absolute must.
Why are you so ambitious? Do you want to be Kalpana Chawla?
I finished my three months’ contract with the college, accepted the earlier job offer and started working in Bangalore. Things in my company were depressing to say the least. The project I was hired to work on got further delayed and I was benched indefinitely. I just had to login to work. I had access to the internet and lots of free coffee to drink. This continued for about 6 months. This was when the memories of my experiences of teaching started hitting me. There was not a single day when I didn’t think about how good it felt to have people listen to my lectures. I knew I had to somehow look at a career in full time teaching long-term and for that I needed to somehow get a PhD. I turned once again to my supervisors who told me that with my CPI they couldn’t take me even in IITK without an interview. I applied for the PhD program at IITK and got an interview call. I was fairly confident that the interview in itself was just a formality, since my M.Tech supervisors wanted to keep me. I didn’t apply to any other institute.
What happened in the interview room was pure horror for me. The first sentence that I heard was from one of the professors in the panel who actually told me that it was evident from my grades that I was not really interested in studying and the only reason I want to do PhD is due to the fact that I got fired from my job.
The panel just refused to look at my MTech thesis and also disregarded the fact that my supervisor wanted to recruit me, he obviously had confidence in my abilities.
I came back to Bangalore feeling a mixture of emotions; I was embarrassed, angry and also wanted to prove a point to the panel that what they were thinking was wrong; I had to find a way. My friends and colleagues thought it was very stupid of me not to apply to other IITs, to this day I am called “Ek goli-ka shikari”- a hunter who goes hunting with only one bullet in his arsenal.
So I started randomly applying to all PhD programs that were even remotely linked to my thesis and experience. The free internet and coffee of my company helped me a lot during this search. It was also during this time that the project I was hired for finally got approved and now my company wanted me to work. It was fair from their point of view, but I now wanted to prepare a bit for the impending interviews. With no PhD offers in hand I decided to quit my job. I had saved enough money to sustain myself for a few months.
However, I experienced a lot of pressure from relatives, neighbours and the society in general. One of my uncles told me “tum ko kaunsa Kalpana Chawla banna hai- pata nahin kyon itna ambtion hai? XYZ ko dekho tumhare saath engineering kiya, ab 50k earn kar raha aur tum ghar main baithe ho” (Do you want to be Kalpana Chawla, what is the reason for so much ambition, look at your friend who was your classmate in engineering, he now earns 50K a month and you are jobless).
Those were really tough days, but my parents never doubted my abilities and that helped a lot.
A Rank of 257 in GATE was more diagnostic of my worth than an M.Tech. CPI of 7.33
Finally, after waiting for a couple of months, I got a few interview calls (a couple from top 100 universities list of Times Higher Education). I was very apprehensive about interviews; my previous interview for a PhD opening was horrible to say the least. Even though my CPI was low, I believed that IITK had prepared me well for PhD in two ways. First, it instilled a certain level of confidence and faith in my ability. Second, thesis work is taken seriously by professors at IITK. It is great preparation for PhD, no amount of course work can ever replicate that in my opinion.
I had a telephone interview with a professor at Katholieke University of Leuven, Belgium – one of the top universities in the world in the field of composites [www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/europe.html] I was pleasantly surprised when there were no questions at all about grades, my to-be supervisor asked me about how I got into IITK? When I told him that there were about 25,000 students appeared in GATE and I was ranked 257, he found the numbers absolutely stunning. In fact he reconfirmed whether I meant 25,000 or 2500. The project I was hired for was a good match with my thesis work and I duly got the offer. I am now doing PhD work at Katholieke University of Leuven, Belgium. My research group is well known in the field of composites. In fact, according to Microsoft Academic Search database, both my supervisor (Stepan Lomov #12) and co-supervisor (Ignace Verpoest #1) make it to the top 12 of the most prolific researchers in the field of composite materials. [http://academic.research.microsoft.com/RankList?entitytype=2&topDomainID=12&subDomainID=3&last=0&start=1&end=100]
One day I asked my supervisor why he was not bothered about my MTech grades before giving me admission to PhD program. He said that if I was good enough to execute my master thesis so well, I was also good enough for the PhD. He said he looked at my grades keeping in mind how tough it is to get into IIT and that competition must be really hard within the class as well.
I recently finished my first year of PhD with the world’s best professors in my field. On the yearly review my professor remarked that in terms of where a PhD student should be at the end of year one, I was way above average. I felt really happy with his remark. I have finally proven that I am indeed capable of doing PhD quality work irrespective of my grades or what my professors at IITK told me. I am finally doing what I am genuinely interested in.
Ignore the people who tell you can’t do something, because you absolutely can if you put your mind to it
The best advice I ever got and would like to share with others is that our admission in IIT is not a matter of chance; there is a reason – we are intelligent, focused, and hardworking and that needs to be kept in mind even when things don’t go as planned initially. I don’t want to sound elitist but even the student who is at the bottom of his class in IIT was at one time in the top 1% of the country. So don’t listen to people who tell you can’t do something because you can and you are good enough.
During my MTech program, I had 4 interviews: one job interview through the placement office just before finishing the MTech and 3 interviews for admission to PhD program after leaving IITK. There were absolutely no questions asked regarding my CPI and grades. It was enough for the interviewer that I had been accepted into the IIT and that my thesis was relevant to their work. Keep in mind that it is generally believed that grades are sacrosanct for admission in the PhD program.
On a somewhat unrelated note, another piece of advice I would like to give is to be responsible in dealing with people. For a lot of people low CPI is a cause of worry because it doesn’t help you get a good job. This can be avoided if you behave responsibly and have good relationships with professors. During my stint as a placement co-ordinator, I met different professors from my department to request them for help with placement. My plea to all of them was quite simple, there are about 30 BTech students, 5 dual degree students and 15 MTech students adding to a total of 50 students looking for jobs. If all the 25 odd faculty members help two students each then there would be a 100% rate of placement. Almost all the professors remarked that this could indeed be done but in the past all of them at some time or the other had bad experiences with students “who would join a rival company even if the salary offered was one Rupee higher” which had resulted in a loss of face for the faculty who had helped the student get the job in the first place. I understand that everybody wants more money but maintaining transparency and responsibly dealing with people would definitely lead to more participation from the faculty. Responsible behaviour from students would therefore be part of the solution towards ensuring that even students with low CPI get jobs.
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Atul Jain, featured in this story, completed his MTech from IITK in 2009 and is currently a PhD student at Katholieke University of Leuven, Belgium — among the top 100 universities in the world. We encourage you to communicate with him. Please post your comments or write to him at atulatj@gmail.com
If you had planned to go to abroad PhD, then why you joined as a placement coordinator. I think placement coordinator should be the person who has really passion for industry and who has passion to inspire others to join industry.
I, however, also believe that grade does not have any much importance once you get graduate from college. Most of the time, If you see your resume after two years of career in industry/academic/research, you wont see the column of grade in it.
I had not planned to do PhD abroad. My plan was to work in industry for some time before and then do PhD in IITK. Indeed I applied to IITK first before applying to PhD elsewhere.
Also,I think placement co-ordinators should be passionate about helping his classmates and making the process of finding a job as easy as possible for his classmates. I dont think it is the job of a placement co-ordinator to influence the career choices of his classmates by way of ” inspire others to join industry” as you have mentioned.
Anyways thank you for reading the blog. i agree with you that grades are important only for the time one is in college
Anyways, thank you for reading the blog
hii ji. that was nice . like your ambition very much. nice and inspirational for me. thank u..
Hi,
Happy to hear that you are happy with what you are doing, I guess after 3 years in Job I would say that’s the thing matter most.
I didn’t like two things in your write up, first you didn’t learn anything from the mistake of IIT’K profs, They rated you based on your CPI and rest didn’t matter. Now You are believing on some rating agency’s rating rather than your first hand experience with your profs.
Second grading system at IITK is favorable to M-Tech guys. In B-Tech Average grade is C not B. Average CGPA is 6.5 not 8.
Best wishes for your future,
Abhishek
Dear Abhisek,
Thank you for reading the blog.
I dont want to make comparisons between the consequences of grading between BTech and MTech. I was just trying to say that since in MTech we have just 8 subjects. Thus, the coarse grading system of IITK will make ur CPI very good or very bad. Also, you cannot recover from a bad 1st sem. While in BTech if you have a bad 1st sem, you can still pull up ur socks and recover by 4-5sem.
Statistically I agree with you that the average CPI of BTech is lower than the average CPI of MTech, but this is not the point i was trying to make.
Atul
Hi Atul,
I totally agree with you! I did my M-Tech Mech from NIT with CPI of 9.34 , my thesis was very good i did not publsih the paper (Which was later published by someone else in 2008 “On SCM”).
Got a Job in 2005 through campus, left every thing and was very happy.
Today after 7.5 years of working in IT field I still have the hiddern desire to finish my Phd.
I always have the desire to find Why/how/Where. this desire has helped me during my studies as well as job.
Money is a seprate thing something is peace of Mind which money can’t buy.
In india if you work for a coperate then you are considered as a SUCESS. You may be doing donkey work, but still you are a Hero.
Will try for Phd this year, lets see what happens.
Keep on posting such motivational real life exp,.
Thanks,
Prem Pratick Kumar
Jain saab apko guitar bhi ati hai, chalo ISAL ko aur ek performer mil gaya
Bro it’s Awesome . . . U rock It
Awseome …. Simply proud of u Atul…
Good Luck..
Neeraj Tripathi
Honrd to have u as our teacher sir! All the best,long
way ahead!
Atul Bhaiya, I am incredibly proud of you and so are my parents!!1Congratulations from all of us….Keep flying high:)
atul how can i get a change r phd addmission in a good university….
Nice writing bro!! Best wishes to you. Choru would have been liked this blog I guess!!
Yes Choru was one of the professors “who taught the only subject he failed in as a student -Fluid Mechanics” Gr8 memories of BESU!
I feel MS(by research) is better for those who are research oriented. In MS, you have 70 credits in thesis and 22 credit in subjects and vivas/seminars. So, if someone is good in finding ideas, then MS is a better choice. However, it may take more time than 2-yrs M.Tech program.
Atul Bhayiya grt story.. i also passd from BESU, ME Dept this yr.. m currently in France studying Nuclear engineering… many of my seniors here are working in nuclear plants n belgium…i have a plan of pursuing a phd too… may b we cn get together smtym over skype to dscuss a few thngs..mainly research opportunities in Belgium..since m still weighing the possibilities between US n Europe, given the language problems in this part of the world.
I have already sent yu a reqst in fb…
Hey have you applied IIsc,or TIFR or ISi kolkata..as far as i know they do not bother about your academic background .They have a minimum criteria (around 60%).if some have have more than 60% then he/she will be called for interview and selection totally based on written test and interview….
great atul bhaiya ….. i really want to see u as a prof. in iitK in the days to come ..
Hi,you mentioned that your PhD was on composites……so is the area of your research related to meta ?? if yes please do post you facebook link ..If you have no problem of course….for I would like to ask you something related to PhD in meta….am in Mtech 1st yr. IIT B…
Cheers
Hey I read the first line again….am from BESU too…..I passed out this yr. Meta Deptt.
Atul, your blog brought back memories of our IITK days – The days we worked together at the Placement Office working extremely hard to get students placed while somehow managing to keep our thesis afloat..Your blog has a powerful message – If you are truly passionate about some thing, no force can stop you from achieving the same. Also the message about people dealing responsibly with faculty etc..is an important one. Yeah, I agree that the CPI system at IITK is hard on MTech students. Good on your part to have taken some risks (like quitting your job). Today, I am very happy for u that u are at doing your Phd under the guidance of some of the top men in your field. Keep it going. Would love to see you become an expert in your field and more importantly a good teacher.
Krishnan,
Thank you! Those were indeed gr8 times. Looking back I think working the placement cell was a great experience. I made a lot of friends and learnt a lot of new things
First OFF, Thanks for writing the blog entry. I can relate to it and I am sure there are quite a few who will be able relate to it and get inspired. Your willingness to share your experience with your name in it, by itself is a great contribution to the society and I am proud of you for that.
Now the comments part.
Those were really tough days, but my parents never doubted my abilities and that helped a lot.
—- The BEST PART. It is parents support that Counts for more than anyone’s else when you go through a tough time. I am Glad and you are fortunate to have such supporting parents. Similar opinion is echoed by Jaya Jha on her blog https://jayajha.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/iitk-two-concerns/
A Rank of 257 in GATE was more diagnostic of my worth than an M.Tech. CPI of 7.33
—- QUITE DEBATABLE. GATE like IIT JEE, is a statistical way of filtering out candidates. It is not an absolute measure of merit. MERIT is not just a NUMBER or a Score obtained in 3 hr exam. I had a GATE rank of 38 in 960 student’s and it was hardly a measure of my Merit. Reason for rank of 38, IIT B.Tech. syllabus and exam questions were much more aligned to GATE syllabus and exam and too few had taken the exam anyways. FYI, I had one week’s preparation. My IIT JEE rank of 1608, was much more hard earned, but again was dependent on the perfect JEE examination that I had on that day. Please read Prof Sanghi’s opinion on current JEE/entrance structure http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj/arts/EDU/oct11.pdf . Also read Jaya Jha’s opinion on 3 hr exam http://jayajha.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/reduce-stress-really/
Your M.Tech CPI of 7.33 combined with your extra curricular activities and thesis is a better measure of your merit. http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj/arts/careers360-jun10.pdf
One day I asked my supervisor why he was not bothered about my MTech grades before giving me admission to PhD program. He said that if I was good enough to execute my master thesis so well, I was also good enough for the PhD. He said he looked at my grades keeping in mind how tough it is to get into IIT and that competition must be really hard within the class as well.
—– A REALLY GOOD INSIGHT and comes from Professor’s rich experience. I would recommend watching http://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work.html to see how even at Harvards people get stressed out because of tough competition.
Btw, Your professor is not alone with his rich experience .. Please see Prof Sanghi’s public opinion
October 2011: Merit is not a Number Game : http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj/arts/EDU/oct11.pdf
His Other Public Opinion : http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj/arts/index.html
In General His Homepage has both personal/professional stuff and shows his passion for higher education and need for educational transformation within country.
http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj/. Btw, you would be surprised he is DOAA and as Head of CSE , he was considered a strict administrator ( I think 2002-05).
But the amount of work he did was amazing. He introduced security measures in CC lab (Earlier passwords were not shadowed and students will use open-source password crackers and guess easy passwords. I myself had cracked 100 of passwords using these tools and used them to access net in IITK) Under him, CS Engineers implemented an automated system,which will identify people with easy password and send automated mail every month. Also password shadowing was used, which made it impossible for everyone (me included) to crack password again. He had a vigilance committee set up to prevent misuse of CS labs in games, porn and movies, specially in busy hours. 1st time they let you off with warning, next with suspension of 1 week, then with suspension of 1 month (if I remember) . I had my account suspended for 1 month and it was a punishment well deserved.
Umesh,
Thank you for reading the blog and also for the link, i enjoyed watching the video.
About your question about learning from extra-curricular activities, the most important thing i learnt was team work and dealing with a diverse group of people confidently. I have as of today 8 people in my “PhD commitee” from 5 different countries. My stint in Placement cell has helped me deal better with such a diverse group of people all at once ( i am sure everybody will have to deal with diverse group of people in their professional life at sometime or the other). Key challenge obviously is to manage your academic responsibilities along with other interests. A possible solution is to first figure howmuch extra time you have after your academic responsibility and then selectively choose activities that interest you most. Open notes exams and the likes are not challenging but take time getting used to in the sense you need a different preparation stratergy as compared to conventional exams, i couldn;t figure out my plan of action so fast.
Finally, i dont want to mention names of profs in a public forum, just take my word that all the profs. i met for help in placement were very accomodating
Atul
Hi Atul,
Thanks for replying back. I am not asking about Professors whom you contacted for Placement Cell, but in general. I believe publicly recommending/praising professors is fine. This blog is targeted to students primarily and it really helps them. I would be careful with criticism but praise is fine and should be encouraged. It becomes more important since you were rejected an admission in PHD program, but definitely found good professors.
But that is my view and you have to weigh pros and cons and choice.
Also, please mention the name of faculty members who helped you. They would be helpful to students still in campus. In addition, it will help other faculty members emulate their examples. Please also mention in comments, what was your learning out of different extra curricular activities. What were challenges of being a placement co-ordinator ? The challenge, the solution, the good, the bad. How aligned/mismatched it was with academics. What did it teach you that Acads didn’t. Why is Open Book Exam so challenging (specially important for M.Tech students) who are exposed to different system and may get it in very 1st semester. UGs get it in 3rd year/final year usually.
wonderful truth
I’m certain that what you have mentioned will definitely pierce the ears of your readers and make them feel much more deeply about this
Well done dear keep it up..!!!
haha! I loved the first paragraph! what a narrow thinking I tell you! Many professors don’t know what exists in the world, they don’t have exposure and have such a unidimensional view to everything!
Nice article Atul.
I guess a very important thing that students can learn from this is that good things come to those who wait.
In IITK (also India in general), we have a tendency that everything should happen continuously. Right in the 3rd year of B.Tech you should clear GATE, then get admission into an M.Tech programme, and before completing M.Tech you should have a confirmed job offer or a PhD offer. Have a delay of 6 months or a year in any of these things and you are labelled as a failure.
It is perfectly okay to wait for a little while if you don’t get your first choices right away. By getting into IIT you’ve already proven your worth, you just need to continue working hard and believe in yourself while life makes good plans for you.
Heyy Atul,
I am named Atul too.
And I would like to say frankly, that your life story depicted here is so much similar to me now.
currently doing Masters from BITS Pilani in Biotechnology. I too had CGP of 7.8 in 1st sem and class competition was high.
Currently I have a offer of doctorate in hand (with healthy stipends) in TU Munich (prof. is also well known in his field) and a subject that I like the most. I also went through job interviews/tests without luck.
I think the free internet and time (at your office and for me in hostel) played a great role for thinking and applying to various department.
I think the point you made of “enjoying thesis” is a extremely important and valid one. If you like the way you work for your thesis, getting PhD is just test of time.
I do not usually comment on blogs, but this one touched my soul and re-iterated the efforts I have put in last 1 year or so. people say, I got Admit for individual doctorate by luck, but I made myself able to obtain that kind of luck. As its said “Want to win a lottery ? Buy the ticket first”
All the best and Cheers!!!
Hi Atul!
How you doing?
I am a Ph.D aspirant & have got a call from iit bombay. I m too scared 4 it. I m a m.tech passout of thapar & hav got a high cgpa but my thesis is nt upto iit level . coz of which i got rejected at IIt delhi earlier.
can u help me in some way?
What if i am not from IIT, and some average deemed university of India….I also have dreams of doing phd in top universities under top profs of my field…..
i dont have any research experience and IIT tag, the only thing i have is my will to pursue phd, sometimes i feel scared, that how i am gonna get admission to phd…
i have 57% in my b.tech
can i get admission into iit’s for m.tech through gate
i wanna do m.tech in iit’s through gate is it possible
if no then which are the colleges i would get
i will be writing my gate in 2014